Dangerous Faith
Dangerous Faith is a ministry that strives to light a fire inside of Everyday Christians to live radically for Christ so that we can glorify God by advancing His Kingdom.
Dangerous Faith
107: Why Do Celebrity Christian Scandals Happen?
Nate Williams and the Dangerous Life Team talk about celebrity Christian scandals, common themes, and how we can try to prevent them in our own lives and in our churches.
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Welcome to the Dangerous Faith Podcast. I have my team with me today with Zeke Spencer. Welcome back, Spencer To all of the three Spencer Smith fans Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know, I think you're, I'm. That's a lot. I'm one of them. So that's four.
Speaker 1:Justin and Blake. My name is Nate Williams and we are glad to talk with you today. We're covering celebrity scandals. Why do they happen from a Christian point of view? So, celebrity Christians, why does it seem like so many people fall in various ways? And so, to start us out y'all, what are some celebrity Christians that y'all know or remember who have fallen to scandal? Anyone have any names that you can think of?
Speaker 4:I don't know his name, but the Blake Tetreault oh crap, shh, not yet we're working on it. The Hillsong guy, or?
Speaker 1:was it Hillsong Carl?
Speaker 4:Lentz. Carl Lentz, that was a big one. I say it's a big one. I didn't even know his name, I just knew he was like a celebrity's pastor if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:I think Justin Bieber went to his church and stuff like that, yeah, like Kevin Durant, so did Chris Pratt Nate, he's the big one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Chris Pratt.
Speaker 4:Would you okay, because was his more so, like, because he did have an extra, he had an affair, right, that was his thing, mm-hmm. So are we just like, limiting? Are we limiting it to that, or are we talking about like other scandals as well?
Speaker 1:All of the above.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:So okay, you have that from Hillsong. What else? What can you all think of?
Speaker 2:Scott Lawson. Ravi Zacharias, okay, ravi.
Speaker 1:Ravi was a big one for me, nathan Williams.
Speaker 5:What's his name? The pastor that's in that vein of John MacArthur and those.
Speaker 2:Scott Lawson.
Speaker 5:No, it was the older guy Mark Driscoll.
Speaker 1:Mark Driscoll was big.
Speaker 5:It was the old guy.
Speaker 1:Do you remember?
Speaker 5:relationship with Scott Lawson. He had used like 70. He was having a relationship with like a 20 year old.
Speaker 1:It sounds like Scott Lawson.
Speaker 5:It is.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 1:But I could he's pretty old, so we all can list a few, and they're particularly devastating because one of the positives and negatives of the internet is you can amass a large following, subscribers, people who pay attention to your sermons, your, your messages, your classes, and so people become online celebrities on top of the physical location where they stay at, where they preach at, and so it's devastating when a celebrity Christian falls away. One person I also think of I don't know if you would include him in the same group, but Kanye West comes out with that one album. Hey time out Comes out with that one album, which I don't know if y'all listen to it. It's not a bad album. Some of the songs are actually decent, in my opinion, I agree, and some of them are fine, but then pretty quickly he then pulls a Kanye and does something else Literally goes 180 the other way as fast as possible.
Speaker 2:There was that guy in. Maverick.
Speaker 5:City that started posting he got drunk or something, posted nude photos on his Instagram story. Chandler Moore no Wait is that him, chandler Moore, that guy yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe not.
Speaker 5:I don't want to say the wrong person, but it was.
Speaker 2:I thought he was a singer, chandler's a drummer, no.
Speaker 5:It was somebody part of Maverick City.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, I don't know, that's why?
Speaker 4:okay, that's why you should not have any of those pictures of yourself on your phone. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2:Just so you don't accidentally post them on the screen. Exactly.
Speaker 4:That's the only reason.
Speaker 2:That's the only reason.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:You yourself safe brother. We are discussing, yes, things you should or should not have on your phone, but anyways, all these examples, and it's devastating when it comes to our Christian witness, to the community, non-believers. If we say that we represent Christ, we are ambassadors for Jesus, but then we go and do these things, then that's a poor reflection of Jesus, his love, his character, and my thoughts are this Christianity is offensive enough. We call people sinners and people don't like that. Why add even more offense with our own scandals and failings?
Speaker 2:Why add unnecessary offense? Guess?
Speaker 1:unnecessary offense, great term. All right, as we think of all these examples and more, we didn't mention what are some common themes or threads? What do we pick up on that lead to these things happening?
Speaker 3:I think the common thread between all of them is every one of them is a christian they were all men.
Speaker 1:Or at least professing to be a Christian. And then Zeke says all men, I would say yes, for the most part. I'm trying to think Major female celebrity, christian scandals. I can think of ones where they've just got really bad theology, but not like a scandal. Yeah, maybe Paula, why there's some Don't talk about my presidents Word of faith type preachers that there are some affairs that went on there, but OK, but yeah, for the most part men. Paula Deen, she felt a scandal.
Speaker 3:Yes, she did Do you care to share what the scandal was? No, I'm good the scandal yes, she did.
Speaker 5:Do you care to share what the scandal was Is?
Speaker 4:it Paula Deen that cooked. Yeah, paula Deen does cook.
Speaker 3:She was good though I loved her, she could have been one of the Christian ladies.
Speaker 1:and then you know, hold on y'all. What did she say?
Speaker 3:Blake, do you care to say?
Speaker 4:Something about too much butter and a very derogatory name for black people.
Speaker 1:Probably that second thing.
Speaker 4:Second, I think that I think that's what got it. She was adding a lot of butter, though.
Speaker 3:Yes, she her saying was a little bit of butter. Put mama june to shame anyways, all right my.
Speaker 1:My question was as we see these things happening, what are common threads, what are common themes?
Speaker 4:just fall into desires. Most of these are just all worldly desire. I mean, like we could say, like the sex scandals. But it's just what the world has to offer. You know money, sex, lust just giving into your worldly desires.
Speaker 1:Okay, so giving into worldly desires, justin.
Speaker 3:We can also kind of point out some churches that are doing scandalous things that maybe they haven't fallen Like. What's one of the guys you told me about Is it Jesse Duplantis, who did the whole sermon on his shoes? Stuff like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's just bad theology.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying is these people are doing? They give a bad name for Christians by doing their stuff. Oh yeah, so it's still scandalous. They set their members I mean for Christians by doing their stuff.
Speaker 4:It's still scandalous. They set their members up for disaster. I think if they have a poor theology, they set themselves up to be more susceptible to giving in to their sins.
Speaker 1:Spencer.
Speaker 5:This is just going to sound obvious, but they're celebrities. That's one thing. That's a common denominator. They all have influence outside of just their bubble, their church, and they reach more people, and so they also a lot comes with that. It's a lot of money, a lot of people looking up to you and there's a lot of pressure and things like that, and so there's always eyes on you. And that's one big thing that puts them all together.
Speaker 1:Yeah To have that, yeah, okay. So there's pressure, there's the thought of excuse me, should there be such a thing as Christian celebrities or celebrity Christians? I don't see a problem with it, okay.
Speaker 2:So if I guess, I guess it depends on how you're defining it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, how are you defining it?
Speaker 1:People who have this massive online following, particularly because they're preaching and they're teaching.
Speaker 4:I mean a part of it is like you can't really help it. I mean, like look at Billy Graham, for example.
Speaker 1:So you're saying it's natural.
Speaker 4:For some people it is like, okay, like Billy Graham, he was a great. Not only could he like teach I'm not agreeing with his later stuff, I'm talking like early Billy Graham but even then he's just a great charismatic person. He could talk well, people really gravitated towards that, the authority he kind of commanded. There are just some people that just have that ability. Rc Sproul I would consider him a celebrity Christian and there's just like I don't think some people can really help it. It's what you do with, it is what's important. It's just like you could go RC Sproul route, which I believe he led a pretty humble life in, but he was big in the whole sphere.
Speaker 4:Tim Keller is another person that comes to mind. But then you think of people like Stephen Furtick, carl Lentz, who it gets to their head and so and I'll talk about this later once we start bringing it up more their head and so and I'll talk about this later, once we start bringing it up more. But there's a parable in the Bible that really kind of answers the question to all that for me when it comes to the scandals and why people do it so. But we'll get to that later once we Sure.
Speaker 1:So these scandals happen and it affects a lot of people. I think one thing I'd also point out is there's no one in their inner circle that holds them accountable. And sometimes, when you have someone who gets that popular that fast, our ego comes into play and people think they're untouchable. People think they can, they're above the law, they're above accountability. They'll tell their elder board or whatever it's like you need me, I built this. Or they'll tell someone they're spiritually abusing. Well, I just do so much work, I do so much good for the kingdom. Let me have this one sin. Let me, you know, spiritual manipulation tactics so wicked and it's evil, it's wicked. So if we're done mentioning maybe common themes and threads, let's then turn it over. What can we do to maybe help prevent some of it? You can't prevent all of it. We're humans, but what are some things we can do as, I guess, everyday believers, everyday Christians in our own lives, with leaders in our own churches? What can?
Speaker 2:we do. I mean, it goes back to what you said of setting up Okay, Like if we're the person that's has a, that there's a potential we might become a person in a position like that, whether it's small or big, it's setting yourself up ahead of time with other people to keep you in check I mean, that's kind of what you were talking about of like, there's a lot of these guys.
Speaker 2:A common theme is there was no accountability. Robbie zechariah's like, after everything happened, a lot of people came out. It's like, honestly, like he really didn't let that many people close to him. Um heard the same with uh, I forget the name. There's another one that that was similar. It was like, yeah, like he had this big platform stuff, but like he had he never let any of the elders or anything like that hold him accountable. And you need to have people whether it's elders or whatever other, depends on your ministry. If it's a church ministry, then yeah, you need to have your elders be the people that look after you, that you can come to, that you can confess and say and say, hey, I need you to tell me the hard things, and it's people who are not afraid to do that I love that spencer I think, one thing too is the
Speaker 5:attention that's given to them is a big issue. It's like, you see, every other video on youtube could be like a heretic says heresy. It's like, guys, why are we talking about this? Why is this being? Why are we putting this in the limelight? Because these people, they're just going to keep doing it, especially if you get them attention, especially that, but it's no surprise. We should put more emphasis on the church that we have in our local community and also good theology. That should be the biggest thing that we should focus on. We shouldn't be focusing on the sparkle creed.
Speaker 5:Like that church was going to do that. But the more fire that you give them, the brighter it's going to go.
Speaker 1:I think one thing that we have to keep in mind in our own hearts is idolatry, that yes, you have a lot of talented and charismatic leaders, and naturally they rise to the top of whatever they're doing. But it's on all of us not to elevate certain people too high to the place of God, and so I remember. The example I use for me is Ravi Zacharias. I really looked up to him. I love the way he talked to people, I love the way that he told stories and he mixed his considerable intellectual talent with this persona that he put on of just loving and caring, being kind and gracious. But then we find out later he was none of those things in real life, but at least you know, towards certain people. But anyways, we are also responsible for our idolatry. So I can think of people that I look up to today. Uh, a couple apologists I enjoy, you think sean mcdowell, frank turek cliff connectly, or however you pronounce it.
Speaker 1:Koneckle, koneckley, I don't know. Koneckley it's kind of overrated. Now, all right, blake, and so what about y'all? What are the people who you like to listen to? Anyone come to mind?
Speaker 4:Nate Williams.
Speaker 5:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:Gross, he's gross, he's gross. So do Do not idolize me. Not that you would Too late. Don't do it Too late. Anyone else, who do y'all like to listen to?
Speaker 5:I think the biggest person that I would be like really disappointed if something came out would be Gavin Ortlin. Gavin Ortlin yeah, I like him, he's good, he's just he seems so solid and like if anything happened it would be. It would be pretty devastating.
Speaker 4:I'd be pretty devastated if something happened with RC Sproul.
Speaker 1:RC Sproul. What is that Zeke? Mention your person, the love of your life.
Speaker 2:Jerry Root. Yeah, if something happened to Jerry Root, there he goes. Mike Winger, dude Mike Winger. Oh, dude Mike Winger fell.
Speaker 4:I had a dream about that, that he fell. Wow Did he?
Speaker 2:Isaac cried Did you, I couldn't do blank inconsolable.
Speaker 1:I was trying to console Isaac you, you already dream about Mike winger.
Speaker 4:I well, I legit know I had a dream that he fell and Isaac, me and him were like watch it. It was like it was. It was bad, like Isaac was so inconsolable.
Speaker 3:I legit called Zeke and Zeke wouldn't even answer.
Speaker 2:I was too depressed, it's too much, were just in despair, dude all the winglings.
Speaker 4:I was in so much shock I couldn't cry. Isaac was inconsolable, though I don't know if.
Speaker 1:Isaac could go on.
Speaker 4:I think Isaac would probably leave the face.
Speaker 1:He'd be like Jesus you took Mike, you gotta take me too.
Speaker 4:Take me, bro, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So Mike Winger is a big one in our group.
Speaker 4:Who uh David Wood something. He's too much of a psychopath.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to be fair he's already kind of went down his bad road yeah, he already got canceled before Christian, so like he did it at the right time.
Speaker 4:He did it before it that is true, he really did. Yes, if something happened to Stephen Furtick I would cry. He's your guy, mari Mari yeah you're an orthy bro orthy
Speaker 2:bro Worthy bro You're an worthy bro, I like some of the stuff he says man, Nah, he's good.
Speaker 1:All right. So that would be on us. As we consume their content and we learn from them, they produce a lot of good stuff. That's on us to not elevate them more than we should. But then, when it comes to church leadership and so this is for all of us talent is a secondary consideration, after character. What happens?
Speaker 1:A tale as old as time. Someone comes in. They're good looking, hardworking, they're smart, they're charismatic, they're witty, good with people, they're personable, and naturally people are like oh, you make a good leader. And so we put them on a stage, we put them behind a pulpit, we put them in video, whatever social media, and because of all those things they're talented, they're gifted. They then become more and more popular, but the whole time there's not discipleship and mentorship and there's not what I talk about sweeping the floors and scrubbing the tables and all the rest of it, the behind the scenes service that needs to happen. You just give people a mic way too quickly, and so we have to make sure giftedness and talent does not outweigh the character that's supposed to be there first.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 2:But anyways, why do you think that is? Why do you think our culture likes to promote people with talent but not character? Because it draws the biggest numbers? That might be a reason. Do you think that's their thought process whenever it happens? Does Zeke?
Speaker 3:have a reason. Does Zeke have the reason? Oh, I didn't know that there was one.
Speaker 2:I'm genuinely curious. That may be one of them, but I feel like the people putting them in a position are looking at it and say, ooh, here's someone I can put in and it's going to bring in a lot of number, I'm going to make a lot of money. Some people may do that, but I'm going to try and be fair and say that's not their intent.
Speaker 4:I think because our Christian mindset is to grow. The can literally just mean taking what you have and spiritually growing them. But as Christians we hear grow, we automatically think numerical. So you think about it like this If Joe Rogan converted to Christianity, we'd want to get a mic in his hands immediately because of the amount of people we think he could. I don't think he would convert that many people. I think he would just have a big platform for Christianity. But some people's mindsets are if we can get this mega popular Justin Bieber.
Speaker 2:What about the people who don't start out as celebrities but now have become it? But they start out as just a charismatic, talented person and they're like, hey, let's put this guy behind the mic before. He's kind of had discipleship. Why do they do that?
Speaker 4:It's the same thing. It's because entertainment sells rather than authenticity. So like, for instance, I love this pastor that I listen to. He's an amazing pastor right, he's, but he's not. But he's not like. He is not like what people would call charismatic. He's very knowledgeable, very solid in his theology and I love it Right.
Speaker 4:But most people, especially baby Christians, they go for like the emotional in your face kind of like I know you're struggling like almost like that prophetic word and that sells because that's entertainment. They don't want to hear open up to Joshua five and we're going to learn about the fall of Jericho. They don't want to hear about that. They want to hear like how can I make my, how can I get a financial blessing? They want the in your face rah, rah, rah, emotionally uplifting stuff, Cause that stuff sells, it's a dopamine, it it's a dopamine, it's like a dopamine rush. So you're not going to put somebody who's boring behind the pulpit. You're going to put somebody who's going to say the things you want to hear, the things like in Second Timothy, whatever the thing that scratches their ears.
Speaker 1:They want to hear that because that stuff sells. I agree, and so I think y'all are correct in the things you're pointing out. Part of it also, zeke, is a lack of leaders in the next generation. So when the boomers eventually, as they retire and pass on, there's going to be countless churches, particularly smaller churches, churches where there's not a pipeline of next generation leaders. A lot of churches are going to be hurting for pastors and sometimes when we see someone promising, we mean well, but the first thought is get them up there, get them experience, get them going. And developing people over years takes a lot of time, a lot of frustration. There are setbacks, people rise and fall, learn and grow and are humbled and all the rest of it. And slow discipleship is not flashy, it's not always fun, and that's where people can say, oh, let's skip all that, this person's talented and we can just hand them a mic. And so people generally mean well, at least sometimes in my opinion.
Speaker 2:What do y'all think should be the okay? So let's say, ideally a pastor goes from working at a church not being the lead pastor, just working at a church, maybe in the form of youth ministry, like you do, or in the form of, like some other service at the church. How long should the average person be working in some of those lower forms occasionally preaching, doing stuff like that before they take on a lead position?
Speaker 4:I feel like that's a God question.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying it's always the same for every person, but like what would be the minimum where you're like it would be very. It would have to be a very weird or a very special situation where I would say, if it's less than this, then like that person, that has to be just extremely gifted by God.
Speaker 3:And even then I don't think the question has a minimum. I think people grow spiritually in different areas, become more spiritually mature in certain areas, and it takes a certain amount of time for different people.
Speaker 4:If I had to put a minimum on it, though. How long did Paul when Paul became a Christian? How long was he disciple for until he started?
Speaker 1:Was it three years? So there's. I would say there were a few years give or take.
Speaker 4:I would say three to five If you had to put a minimum on it, I think three to five. Simply because, like for me, when Nate started mentoring me, I didn't become a youth pastor until I'm not even a youth pastor, just a youth leader. I didn't become that until probably third year, fourth year.
Speaker 1:Give or take.
Speaker 4:But in those first two years though, I wasn't like he wasn't like training me for that, we were just training on how to serve the church, and through all that you learn what your gifts and what your callings are. So my gift and my calling just happen to be youth ministry right now, and you know it can grow from wherever that I might be a youth minister until I die, and that'd be a okay with me. I know that I'm not upset about that. Any way that I can serve the kingdom is how I'll serve the kingdom. But if you're going to put a minimum on it I think three to five years you just, you just get so much knowledge.
Speaker 2:What do you think? Would you be like Justin, be wishy-washy, like, oh well, we can just put him up there because he's cool and funny, or would you say no, that's exactly, yes, what Justin was saying.
Speaker 1:I think for me it needs to be a long enough time to where the congregation, the local church family can see fruit, where you see there's faithfulness, the ups and the downs and you live life and it's not fun and it's not flashy Again. That's the big thing. But is someone consistent? Are they reliable? Are they kind? How do they handle trials? And as the years go by, let's say you're seeing someone grow up in the church or a church member, whatever you see their faithfulness, you can say, all right, I think that person's ready for leadership. Broken and I'm not going to blame any one person or whatever for this.
Speaker 1:But you look at churches and when they need a pastor, what do they do? They open up the search and they put it on Indeed or whatever and you go and you hire a pastor. A lot of churches have to do that and that's fine. But what happens is you hire someone who's basically a stranger and you hope they're good, talented, plus character and all the rest of it. You hope so and sometimes it doesn't work out, whereas the ideal model is watching people grow up from a young age and they're living their life and you have an intergenerational church and people at high school, college, young adults and all the rest of it, and you've known them for years and you can point out and you can say, hey, you would be a wonderful deacon, elder pastor, and then they go out they get training, go to seminary, whatever, and then they come back and serve in their local church.
Speaker 1:That would be the ideal model. So you really get to know your leaders. But that's not what we do these days. We go, we hire somebody and hope it works out.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, anyway, justin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, I remember when I got hired. Well, you want to talk?
Speaker 4:close to the microphone buddy.
Speaker 3:Sorry.
Speaker 4:We already made this episode really hard for Nate. I've made this episode really hard for Nate.
Speaker 3:He's got like three things he's got to edit. Thank goodness for that.
Speaker 4:Four things now. Skip a D.
Speaker 3:Keep that in. Keep that in. But well, now I forgot what I was going to say, blake.
Speaker 4:That's good. It probably wasn't worth anything anyways.
Speaker 2:You're right, golly so mean to each other Kicking while he's down dude.
Speaker 1:All right, all kicking while he's down, dude. All right, all of the editing going on, but anyways. Uh, so I think we covered a lot of ground. Uh, common themes, how to prevent them, but things to look for. If you're looking for a new church, be wary of people who lead the church and it's just one person, because, biblically, what are we supposed to have?
Speaker 5:Deacons elders.
Speaker 1:Deacons and elders and there are different terms for stuff, but it's supposed to be leadership there You're telling me we're not supposed to radio satellite.
Speaker 4:A pastor across three campuses. I was just thinking about that.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 4:But that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1:It makes so much money, it makes so much money, money makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, justin. Well, that's one thing I was going to say is make sure the pastor talks about nothing but money, and especially if they say that God asked them for advice, you know you're at the right place.
Speaker 5:And God is going to prosper you in everything that you do.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:yes, name it claim always and all the time you're going to get whatever you want some good, solid theology being proclaimed by the next generation and okay.
Speaker 1:So be wary also if you run into people who cannot be questioned. And for all of y'all's jokes about me, one thing I do enjoy is when y'all push back on stuff and ask me questions or disagree with me. I like that because we can work things out. If you are with a pastor and you cannot question him or he gets defensive when you say, hey, why do we do this, why do we do that? That's probably not a healthy environment. And again it goes back to Mark Driscoll. If you go and listen to the Christianity Today, rise and Fall of Mars Hill, you can go see all that. But anyways, just incredible story, also very saddening, but yes, you could not question. To question him was to question God and that's very dangerous. To question him was to question God and that's very dangerous. That's so blasphemous. But anyways, any final thoughts on the topic celebrity Christian scandals and what we can do about it on our end, what things to look for Go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Justin.
Speaker 3:You raise your hand. I was just going to say a quote from Mr Nathan Williams over here, who just said that we're allowed to question him, because we absolutely can question him. But to quote him, it's not that he's never been wrong, it's that wrong has never been him.
Speaker 4:That was a quote.
Speaker 2:That is a quote from you.
Speaker 1:That was a quote. When did I say that I need the day? Guys, if you're hearing this.
Speaker 4:This is a plea for help.
Speaker 2:Please, please, help. He trapped us in here, he's trapped us.
Speaker 4:He's the next Mars Triskel. Help, we haven't eaten in three days. Get back to work. I will say this A really cool thing when I was thinking about this because I was thinking about the podcast topic earlier during church is we had just finished up Mark, chapter 4, and it was the parable of the soils, and I really like, or I really like how, like when you see the scripture really come to life, in the sense of you see it play out in real life, and so I was thinking about the part where you know it's like the, it's the seed that is dropped and it springs up, but then like thorns and thorns choke it out.
Speaker 4:That's kind of like what you see with the celebrity pastors is that kind of soil being demonstrated, and you know it is heartbreaking. But at the same time, this is like why Jesus told us this parable, and it's the one parable he told us like if you don't understand it, you won't understand any of the other parables. So it's really cool to like see it work through it. Not cool as in like it's cool what happened to him.
Speaker 4:But the truth of the word, the truth of the word being on full display and knowing like for us, I like to think we're in here, we're all good soil, you know, sometimes we can be different soil, but most of the time we are good soil Just to see that address it, but then also have the humility to say, hey, we can fix this. We don't have to like just destroy somebody's life over it. Yeah, spencer.
Speaker 5:I think it's easy to get caught up in one person or one personality, even if they are teaching correct theology, but I love you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 5:But it's so easy to do that, and we just have to catch ourselves and remind ourselves that our faith is truly in Christ and in the word of God and in what the church teaches and that's not just one person, that's a whole group, and so if your whole faith leverages on one person's teachings or one person's moral failings, then you're just you're going to have this life.
Speaker 1:So what Spencer said hits the nail on the head Hold to the word, be active in your local church, support your local pastor in a healthy way and yes, Unhealthy.
Speaker 4:You can't make me All right.
Speaker 1:That's accurate, spencer. Since you have just rejoined us, I'm going to give you the honor of sending us off for this episode. How would you like to finish the episode?
Speaker 2:I'd say, let's pray I like it chooses wholesome I was just gonna crunch a chip
Speaker 1:and his wholesomeness. All right, spencer.
Speaker 5:Pray for us all right dear, be with us as we go throughout this week. Let us be bright lights for you in this dark world and remind us each and every day where our hope is, where it lies, in the truth of your word and in the glory and grace of your son Jesus Christ. In your name I pray.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 5:Thank you.