Dangerous Faith
Dangerous Faith is a ministry that strives to light a fire inside of Everyday Christians to live radically for Christ so that we can glorify God by advancing His Kingdom.
Dangerous Faith
#91: Grow with Chlo – Making the Case for Marriage
Chloe Adams and her husband Zeke are joined by Nate Williams. They make the case for why marriage is a good thing and offer wisdom/advice on various relationship issues.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to Grow With Clo. I'm your host, chloe Adams, and today with me I have Zeke Adams, my wonderful husband and of course, nate Williams, which you guys all know.
Speaker 2:There we go.
Speaker 1:So today, on this episode of Grow with Chloe, nate is going to be asking us questions about marriage or just relationships in general that we didn't get beforehand.
Speaker 2:So this is all just unrehearsed, Typically Chloe, OK here's what happens on a Sunday afternoon, when we record, typically Chloe. Okay, here's what happens on a Sunday afternoon when we record, chloe will bring in a few backpacks and she'll be like a wheelbarrow full of papers and videos and laptops, and all that with research that she's done on the topic. But today, just completely off the cuff.
Speaker 1:I like to be prepared.
Speaker 2:And that is awesome and we greatly appreciate that. Right Zeke, yep. We love just the thought and the effort that goes into everything, every little thing, yep, yep. All the enthusiasm.
Speaker 2:So, let's get started. We often talk about marriage from a Gen Z perspective and people have different thoughts on marriage. But I'm going to offer y'all a different timeline for your life and tell me how it sounds. Chloe, you are eventually going to become a PT. You're in school now, and then Zeke as well. You went to UAB and now you're an engineer working.
Speaker 2:So here's an alternate timeline. You're not married, neither of you. You go through school and, zeke, you're making a lot of money, saving up, and you know it's just you enjoying life and going on trips, vacations, all getting involved in all the hobbies you want and, you know, maybe having a little bit of fun here and there relationally, but you're free. And then eventually, 30s, 40s, you're like, okay, I've had my fun, I can look to get married. Now, chloe, same with you. You eventually finish up school, you become a PT, working. Same thing Hobbies, fun, vacations, friends, kind of having some fun here and there with relationships. And then later on, 30s and 40s, you're like, okay, time to settle down, now I can get married, you know, maybe have kids or adopt or something like that. And that's the alternate timeline you could have chosen, as opposed to getting married and doing the things you're doing now. So, for either of you, how does that sound that alternate timeline if you had made different choices? Sound that alternate timeline if you had made?
Speaker 3:different choices. I mean, obviously if it happened that way it would have been fine. But I mean, if I'm being asked, like, obviously I wouldn't have preferred that, I'm glad that I mean I've had the choice. I probably would have been married sooner and everything. But like when I say sooner, like you know, like years before we even like a year or two before we even started dating, because like that would have been the time of my life that I would have wanted to. But I'm not upset that it took longer because I got to meet Chloe instead and I don't, you know, I can't imagine what it'd be be like to be completely different. So I'm not upset with it having taken longer than I wanted to, and I imagine my thought process would probably been the same if it meant that I still got to marry Chloe, even if it wasn't in my 30s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a question. So in this alternate timeline.
Speaker 2:It's by choice. By the way, In the alternate timeline, you're purposefully making the decision to put off marriage.
Speaker 1:So am I dating anyone at this time, or Zeke or anybody I?
Speaker 2:guess alternate timeline. If you date, it's just kind of for fun. In the moment you don't want anything serious because you have your career and you want to do your own thing, and so that would really be up to you in this alternate chloe world oh, if that's the case, I probably wouldn't really date.
Speaker 3:If that was, yeah, if I knew I didn't want to get married because I've never really dated with the intention of just to date. Like I it may have, like it may have always started with, like you know, I'm interested in this person, but I knew long term I'm looking for a mate like I couldn't really tell you why that is, I've just that's the mindset I've always kind of grown up with of like, even at a young age, like I was always looking to the future of like do I want to spend the rest of my life with this person?
Speaker 1:if not, for me it's kind of a waste of time yeah, I mean, if I wasn't looking to get married in the next, I don't know, three years like or so in that alternate timeline, I just wouldn't date anybody. Because what's the point? Because to me, dating is a commitment in a way, because, like Zeke said, I'm not going to date someone without the intention to marry them. So what's the point in dating? I would probably just make a vow to myself like I'm not going to date.
Speaker 3:Because if I'm not going to get married for another 10 years.
Speaker 1:I just remember when we were dating, not going to date, because if I'm not going to get married for another 10 years, that just I just remember when we were dating, even for we only dated for two and a half years before we got married. And even those two and a half years I was like, oh, I just want to be married. So bad and everything would be so much easier because we didn't live before, we lived together before we were married. So like it just made situations a lot more tricky, like figuring out living situations and money and financial, all the different things. So I would just not date too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Now you have a lot of people I guess millennial gen z that do have that mindset. They they come up if they go out to college. They get through college and the thought is, oh, I, I'm going to put off marriage, I can get to that later, I can get to it eventually. So I guess what is y'all's case for marriage? And now I do. I want to have this disclaimer because I want to have a bit of a pastoral mindset.
Speaker 2:There are many single people out there that would love to be in a relationship and get married. Just, for whatever reason, it's not possible right now. They haven't found. For whatever reason, it's not possible right now, they haven't found the right person. I'm not addressing those people. There are just others who it's an intentional choice to put off marriage. And so what I'll ask you to? We see all the social media videos about bashing marriage or bashing children are just so much fun not having those things or not being a part of that lifestyle. So I'll ask you make the case for getting married. Why is it a good thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I would just say, you know, I have a Christian worldview, so my thoughts are marriage is a lifelong commitment made between you and one other person, but also isn't that controlling, though, like locking yourself down to one person?
Speaker 1:I don't think so in the slightest. Because it's it's a beautiful thing, actually, because it's it's showing that you would go through anything in life with this person, every single season of life, every single hardship. You're choosing to go through it with this person for the rest of your life. And so with my christian worldview too, like I don't, I don't like. Divorce is not an option. Like I go, I don't, I didn't go into marriage thinking I have a way out of this if something goes wrong. Now you know there's certain situations you know the bible talks about where, like that, might be exceptions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some.
Speaker 1:There's some exceptions, but other than that, like no, that is not an option, we don't even say that word in our house, like we just don't even joke about it or anything. But more than that, it's a commitment you make before God too, and we want to honor God with the commitments we make to him. And so if I promise I'm going to love Zeke for the rest of my life, then I'm going to do that, no matter what he does to me or what he says to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think she kind of gives, like partially, a part of the reason why we do as Christians, to kind of dive into that a little bit more of. In a sense, it's a reflection of the gospel, because time and time again, we have a God who, though we mess up and we fall short, and though we do bad things, he's faithful to us. And I think a lot of people get that mixed up and I think everyone has a desire for someone like that. You know, you could ask yourself, even if you're not Christian, you could say you know, would I? I've had, you've probably had plenty of relationships where someone's messed up, someone's betrayed you, someone's done wrong, and are you heartbroken over that? Do you wish that person hadn't have betrayed you or do you wish they hadn't have done that bad thing for you? And I think every one of us would say, yeah, I wish people didn't hurt me and they didn't betray me. And that's just essentially what God is for. Uh, that's what God does for us. He doesn't betray us. He doesn't uh, you know, run away. He doesn't uh give up on us whenever we mess up, and he's constantly there in the marriage.
Speaker 3:It's the same way of it's saying I'm going to stick with this person regardless of the circumstances and the conditions obviously there's we're not going to go into the extremes. I'm just saying typical person, I'm not going. Just because Chloe makes me mad one day doesn't mean I'm going to walk out and leave. Just because she's messed up and made a mistake, or I've messed up and made a mistake as I typically do, doesn't mean we're just going to give up and walk away. And that's the difference between marriage and dating.
Speaker 3:At dating, you can walk away at any point. There, dating, you can walk away at any point. There's nothing holding you together and you can probably go into the research of why that's. A lot of people who live together before marriage don't work out because they start off with a foundation of I can still leave when I want to, whereas a marriage we realize there's something to that. It's more than just dating. It's saying that I am committed to this person, to this person. And if you actually just listen to the any wedding vows that you hear given at any wedding, like through sickness and in health, no matter what, rich or for poor, like if we lost everything tomorrow and I could go live with my parents and be okay, I'm not going to do that because we're in it together for the long haul, no matter what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and just to kind of go off that, like God designed marriage and God's designs are like any designer you think of is knows the safest and best way to handle that. So when God says that marriage is lifelong commitment to someone, that's that should be a very secure thing, because I know that, like what Zeke was talking about, I could do the work. I could do the work. I could do something absolutely terrible. I could say that some terrible things to Zeke, but just knowing that he is committed to me for life is makes me feel safe because even if I mess up because I am human, like I'm going to sin and mess up but even if I do that, then Zeke is still going to be there for me.
Speaker 2:One thing I wanted to ask was weekends time money. A lot of people don't want to feel that controlled aspect of marriage. They don't like that part. Oh, I got to ask someone about checking with weekend plans. Oh, before I go buy something I have to go ask someone. All right, what's our financial situation? If it's like a bigger purchase, that just seems controlling and restrictive. If I'm single, I can live my life as I please and I don't have to check with someone plans. Money, time, bank account, I can do as I please and that seems so much more enjoyable and there's freedom there. What do y'all think about objections like that?
Speaker 3:If you're concerned about that, don't get married one. But you're going to live for someone, no matter what you do. You can live for another person, whether it's your spouse, you can live for another person, whether it's your spouse, you can live. Or if you decide to stay single or God calls you to singleness, you can live for God. I mean you should live for God, no matter which one you choose. But if you're single, you're living for God, you're wanting to do his will. If I never got married, that would be, and if I was in the right spiritual place, that would be my goal.
Speaker 3:Like Paul talks about, like those who aren't single or those who are single are capable of doing more in the kingdom, in the sense of like they just have more time. Like you're saying, they're not, they don't have to check in on a spouse or children or stuff like that. They physically have more time in their day to take care of things, of spiritual matters. So one, you're going to be serving someone and if it's not God and it's not a spouse, it's probably going to be your own desires, and that's kind of controlling. I don't always control my own desires. Sometimes I want things that I don't actually. I want things I know aren't good for me and I still do them anyways. So in that sense it's very controlling.
Speaker 3:But two like to say it's controlling, it's like you're being forced to do it. That's why I said, if you don't want those things, that don't get married. But like no one's making you unless someone's holding you at gunpoint and saying, hey, you have to get married and do everything for this person, like it's out of love and respect, the same way that your parents took care of you when they had you. Hopefully you know, good parents take care of their children and look out for them. And yeah, that means that the parents can't go on vacations all the time or go do everything they want or, you know, wake up late. Like parents have to sacrifice, it's sacrificing for other people and if you live your entire life just for yourself and what you want, that day it may sound good in the moment, but it sounds kind of miserable in the long term to me yeah yeah, and I think I think surface level, it can come off controlling about having to go check in with your spouse about everything, um.
Speaker 1:But to me it's not really, because we're a team, like we work together for our decisions, for what we do with our money and our time, and that might mean that we have to sacrifice some things, like if we have some big expense coming up the next month, we might have to take some other things out that were, you know, quote, unquote, fun or whatever. But marriage is sacrifice. Like that's probably one of the biggest things I've learned in marriage so far is how much we have to sacrifice for each other, to make it work and to make each other happy, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, I think those are good answers. And then one last question in this kind of vein, some of the common objections you'll hear to marriage. Okay, y'all feel this way now. You're young, active, energy and newly married-ish Okay. But what about 10, 20, 30 years from now? Bodies aren't going to be the same. You know attractiveness, y'all understand the human elements of that. People change personalities, wishes, desires. You don't know what life is going to look like 20, 30 years from now.
Speaker 2:And if you're locked into something? I mean, think about all the? You know we don't have to call any names, but we know people who are in unhappy marriages. And well, what about that? You know we did talk about how the Bible outlines some exceptions to stay married, some reasons potential reasons for divorce, but barring some of those things, you're in it for life. Potential reasons for divorce, but barring some of those things, you're in it for life. So what do you say to that potential that you don't know if the person you love and you marry today is going to be similar 20, 30 years from now? Isn't that a little bit scary? Isn't that a little bit like give you pause? What about if you don't get married? You don't have to deal with that. So any answers there.
Speaker 3:I mean if you don't get married, you don't have to deal with that. So any answers there. I mean, if you don't get married, you still have a little bit of dealing with that in the sense of you're still going. I hope you still have a community in your life of people and friends and family and they're going to be different 20, 30 years down the road. Take your family, for example, and hopefully you don't have to disconnect from your family. But yeah, to be fair, you could if you weren't married and it's just relatives that it gets to the point where you don't like them and don't want to be around them. You don't have to be around them, whereas your spouse we're saying you're locked in or you should be locked in. But I mean that kind of brings us back to the whole point of like.
Speaker 3:If you notice some of the just listen to any wedding vows like. None of them bring up like in beauty, like if only. If they don't bring up conditions of if you're beautiful, then I'll stay with you. If you make X amount of dollars, then I'll stay with you. If you do this for me for this many years, I'll stay with you. It's all these other things of like no matter what, like when we say like, I think, unconditional, like, especially in Christian communities, like we know what it means, communities like we know what it means, but it's like one of those words where you use it so much that, even though you know what it means, like you forget the it loses its power. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't. Power's not the right word, but it kind of loses its effectiveness and like it doesn't like really reach the heart. We just kind of hear it and we're like, okay, I know that word, let's just tune through that word.
Speaker 2:I know what you mean, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think if, like we, just you could probably do a word study on unconditional and just look at all the times where God was unconditionally loving us. And like unconditional means unconditional. So that means 20, 30 years from now, if Chloe becomes a completely different person, my call is still to love her. I may not be happy, I may not be enjoyable, but my call is to love her and hopefully, if it ever got to that point where one of us is unhappy, we have an abundant amount of resources, not just in the church but in the world right now. There's therapists, there's pastors, there's plenty of people. Go looking at other marriages who have successfully done it.
Speaker 3:Like you said, there's some examples where people get unhappy 20, 30 years down the road, but I can name countless, just in our community, who have done it for decades upon decades. We're talking 50, 60 years and they've done it and they're happy and they're a joy to be around and they're like, for example, we heard of one yesterday. This is like a couple that you want to be when you get older. They go to our church and they're getting on up in age, but they're the type that whenever they retire, they bought an RV and they would go every summer to youth camps and just be an extra set of hands to help out, do whatever, like they didn't get paid for. They just loved seeing kids come to no cross and they'll they'll sweep floors or move chairs or whatever it is, and that's like something they do as a vacation for the summer and that I would.
Speaker 3:I could attest that they're probably very happily married if they're willing to sacrifice their time and effort to look after the next generation and I know some personally who I know like they have a happy marriage and like they give advice to younger couples, so like it's possible to get down the road. Because me and Chloe are going to change that's the given Like we're not the same person we were, you know, five years ago. We're going to change and hopefully we grow together along the same path and not further and further away. But if that was to happen, you know Christ can restore all and he can bring us back together if we're both willing to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, along with loving your spouse through all the changes, praying for them too, because as Christians, we believe there's so much power in prayer and God can do amazing work through you as a spouse, and in them. But that also just goes to show. Another beautiful thing about marriage is that you stick by their side, no matter what, no matter how much change, or even if they become a completely different person. You still are there for them. Okay.
Speaker 2:I like that. Okay, I like that. It comes back to the love of Christ, as he's loved us Despite all of our foibles and all of our missteps. We are to love those around us, specifically our spouse. So great answer there. Can I give one?
Speaker 3:piece of advice I've seen constantly and I'm not an expert on any of this. I've only been married a year and some change, and uh, it's really only been a year, are you?
Speaker 1:saying chloe ages you, we've just had so much happen.
Speaker 3:It feels like it's been more than a year, a year and two months. Yeah, I don't know, it's been a long year with a new house. Yeah, but uh the advice I was gonna give is like I hear so many people call in on like a therapist podcast or whatever it is and the they're talking about. Well, I hate it when my spouse says this and I I hate this about them or I really don't like this or that and inevitably the same, even the same people who listen to this and then call in.
Speaker 3:They get the same answer that everyone else gets, but they don't think to apply it to themselves. But he's like, okay, okay, well, you've told me a lot about them, but I need to hear about you. And a lot of people just assume like it's always the other person's fault. That's been the biggest help for us. It's like if I'm mad like at first I'm mad and I'm upset at her, but then, if I'm being wise and smart, I'd sit back and I'd think, okay, what fault do I have in this? What could I have done differently? And then it's being able to acknowledge that we're both messed up people and that we both can make mistakes. And if I realize that I have a part in this, then that means I can't get completely mad at her. And then there's more room to discuss and work through it. And I think that's what people just lose the ability to communicate and take self-responsibility. A lot of times I've seen I won't name names, but I've seen people in my life who it's always the other person and it's never themselves.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, Zeke.
Speaker 3:That's me. I know I wasn't going to say your name, but Good thoughts.
Speaker 2:What can I do better, what can I do differently? That's one thing I'll say when I preach. If it's a particularly convicting passage, I'll always say before I can point the finger at anyone else, I have to point it at me first, and I think it starts with you when it comes to self-improvement. But anyways, good thoughts there. So I'll stop with the just common objections. Why not to get married? I could go on, but we've covered some of the bigger ones, I guess. All right. So for those on the fence and maybe they're in a relationship and they're wondering whether or not to buy the ring, they're wondering whether or not to just take that next step, set a date for the wedding, the rest of it, give us a peek behind the curtain of just everyday married life. Now, you know, obviously keep it PG Zeke, but you know we have the movies and we have the books and all the rest of it. But what does everyday married life look like? That people might not always think about.
Speaker 3:Well, I was going to say and I'll let you go, but I just want to say something before we gave advice on that. I think one piece of advice for people who are curious of like, did I pick a good spouse? And one piece of advice I had was I had several people who knew my spouse very well while we dated and they could confirm that I was making a good decision, like they saw us together on a regular basis dated, and they could confirm that I was making a good decision, like they saw us together on a regular basis and they weren't.
Speaker 3:There's plenty of relationships I've had in the past where if I said I was marrying this person, I would have had several friends like that's not a wise idea, you shouldn't do that. And that's the hardest thing is actually listening to people, because you just whenever you ask that question, you have to be open to hearing what you don't want to hear, and that would be before you do any, before you even get to what we're about to talk about with the marriage stuff. Like have a good community of people who have seen your spouse more than just one time before y'all got married and can speak some wisdom into you. Like hey, I'm not saying no, but maybe hold off, here's some things I see and then try to give some time for that to to happen. But anyways, chloe, go go ahead with day to day stuff.
Speaker 1:No, that's so good. But kind of like what Nate was talking about, if you're like on the fence, like should I buy the ring? I also think it depends on where you're at in life, because there are certain times where, yes, you should go ahead and get married, but, let's say, you're not graduated from college yet and you're not working, you're not making money to financially support you and someone else, it might not be so wise to get married. So, yeah, definitely seek wise counsel when it in regards to, like when you should propose and actually get married. Okay.
Speaker 1:But actually going to your question, honestly, to me it's just like you're living now just with another person. It's easier to me because I found it a lot harder when I was in Birmingham and Zeke was in Oneonta Like we were an hour away from each other and trying to make time while I was in school and he was also in school and working. So to me it might sound crazy, but it's actually easier because I get to come home to Zeke and if I have things I need to tell him or things I need to show him or like things we need to work on, he's there and I get to see him and it's really nice. It's actually just really great to get to come home. And well, when he comes home usually I'm home first, but when he comes home I can just give him a big hug and ask him how his day's going. So that part is really nice.
Speaker 2:So you would say it's easier being married than dating.
Speaker 1:In a way, yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Maybe not. There's a reason for that? Not in every way.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's a reason for that for us, because we didn't live together before we were married.
Speaker 3:Well, no, I mean, yes, didn't live together before we were married. Well, no, that I mean yes, that too. What are you talking about? For I think that most people if we were to pull newly married people or anyone who's been married I would say that it was a big change and that it was maybe a little bit difficult not everyone, but I think a lot of people it would. They would probably have found going into marriage more difficult than living on their own, and the reason why I think we didn't was because we we put a lot of prep into it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And also and this isn't just me, but like but we've we both voiced expectations. That was a big one Like we had. Uh, everyone gets so and I think it's gotten better in the past couple of years. But everyone gets so freaked out about pre-marriage counseling as if you only go to that if you're worried about being married. But like we weren't having any concerns and we were suggested and we went and it was super helpful.
Speaker 1:It was the best thing we could have done for our marriage.
Speaker 3:I think I've heard it said this way, said you go in, you plan your wedding day for a whole year, some people for over a year. You plan the one day that's going to take, the one event that's going to take place. How much time do you spend preparing for actual marriage?
Speaker 3:and marriage is the rest of your life yeah, how much do you actually plan on that part of it? Yeah, and hardly anyone does any kind of planning. They're like, oh, we'll just figure it out. It's just like dating, but you go to bed together and that's not the case. I mean, we, like I said, we went into it voicing expectations, so like, uh, part of it was like chloe knew my habits, the ways I do things, and she knew what I expected from her and maybe some of the things I expected. She's like that's not going to happen and I had time to kind of process that instead of just being a culture shock as soon as she moved in, like why?
Speaker 1:do you fold the?
Speaker 3:towel this way. That's so stupid. Why do you put forks in this drawer and stuff like that?
Speaker 1:like that, not to say that we knew each other and our habits completely when we got married because we didn't, and that's just because chloe still does stuff the wrong way.
Speaker 1:That I don't so that just comes with living with someone new, um, but yeah, there's a lot of conversations to be had before marriage and marriage is not something you should rush into. I tell my friends out all the time I'm like do not should rush into. I tell my friends out all the time I'm like do not ever rush into marriage. It's so, it's so, so, so important.
Speaker 3:It's such a good thing, but it's also something that it's a blessing that can become a curse if you're not well equipped for it. Or even if you weren't well equipped and you're already in it, you're like well, I guess it's a curse. Now I don't have a choice If you Make active choices to make it better.
Speaker 1:And two, like before getting married, we were completely open and honest with each other and we did not let anything slide Like we didn't keep anything a secret, like we told each other every single thing we've been through in life that made us into who we are. And so if you're carrying baggage into a new marriage that you haven't told the other person, then there might be some kind of something that comes out of you that was from that situation, and then if your spouse doesn't know that past thing, then they're going to be very confused and very shocked.
Speaker 2:So what I'm hearing is y'all put a lot of work before marriage so that once you got into marriage, some things you can't you know, anticipate everything, yeah.
Speaker 2:But at least a lot of the bigger stuff it's been taken care of. And now obviously there is a shock when, just a little bit, when you actually got to do the thing you know it's like talking about the game versus, you know playing the game when the whistle blows and everything starts. So I do understand. But y'all put the effort in. That really matters. Talk, have a good support group, ask questions, be open and honest, communicate with your future spouse. I think all those things are healthy habits to develop. If I could speak English, but anyways, I guess all right. But anyways, I guess all right. So this episode has had a lot of positive comments and I'm glad about that. This again you're making the case why people should want to be married and I love that. But then I guess in the future not everything's going to be sunshine and rainbows. I assume Tragedy will strike at some point. It might be. You know, someone passes away unexpectedly, a financial hit happens, something you know oh, got to go buy a new car or just whatever.
Speaker 2:Imagine all the different trials, small and large, that can hit you. How do y'all anticipate when something serious goes down? What do you think that will look like for y'all?
Speaker 3:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Well see, that's the thing. It's more speculative because the tragedy hasn't happened. But I guess let's say something happens in the future where things don't go well. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. There's some grief, some mourning. Don't go well, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. There's some grief, some mourning. How do y'all see y'all handling that? If you can even answer the question?
Speaker 1:I think well.
Speaker 3:I mean, we've had death since we've been married, yeah, and that's just being there. There's not really much you can do, depending on the situation. If it's like a death in the family, there's really not much you can do. Really much you can do, depending on the situation. If it's like a death in the family, there's really not much you can do. I mean, the only thing you can really plan for in the head time is just being there for the other person, um, being able being okay to sit in silence and not having to talk unless that person's wanting to talk. I think that's the case for most people. I think that's probably just. You do deal with this a lot more than I do. I think that's probably a general rule of thumb.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oftentimes it's called a ministry of presence. You're just there.
Speaker 3:So that, financially, hopefully, that's another thing that we plan for ahead of time. It's like we want to make sure we're starting on the right foot. So there's a million different programs and classes or apps and things that you can use Like there's never been more of an abundance of things to prevent you from having a bad situation like that than there is today. So not saying that won't happen it'll probably still happen but you can be more well equipped today than ever before. So start working on that now, before you're married, or, if you've been married, start today. Start something, basically just keeping a budget. Um, now back to your question what would we do if something was to happen? I know what I would like for us to do, so I guess what would you like for y'all to do?
Speaker 3:Is this something we kind of talked about today in Sunday school of like it's the thing that, no matter what happens, being in the word of God and if you're not a Christian, I can't help you, only God can but I mean that's the thing that's been the most consistent. Like we were talking about today. Like our church is gearing up to build a new sanctuary for the next generation, us being the next generation of Christians and we have this poster board inside of our room now and it's kind of incredible, we get to see the very first church that was built there in 1914. Then we get to see the one that's there today, and then we get to see the one that's soon to be built, lord willing, in the next three years. And it's kind of interesting. The one that was built in 1914 was really right there at the start. I think it finished getting built right there at the start of World War I. So something fascinating about that is you have a group of Christians who built a church, got it established, and then World War I hits, and it could have been easy for them to say, okay, well, the world's about to end, everything's going to crap, this was all for nothing, and they may have thought that, and yet they still showed up, sunday after Sunday, week after week, and was diligent and devoted to God and his word and serving the community. And that led to, eventually, world War I was over with.
Speaker 3:World War II came by the church. That church eventually got destroyed, but yet that's because they built a new one, because that one had to be either they needed more size, or that one was just falling apart. And yet now we're at the same place. The one that we have now is falling apart and we're growing. So we need a new sanctuary. And it's just crazy, like all these things, all these perishable things, over time will go away. Same in our marriage, same in our lives. We will have run into situations, circumstances will happen, financial crisis, uh, you know, death of a loved one, whatever it is. Things will happen in our lives that if we were our own foundation, if we were the only thing that supported us, we wouldn't have a hope, we wouldn't have anything to do. But because we have something that's stronger than that, stronger than any building, any person, if we rely on God and his word, then, no matter what happens, we're going to be okay and that's the.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 3:Like last thing I'll say about it and I'll shut up, but the biggest thing that's been very helpful was when I've said before on the other podcast, but Psalm 46, that's a great song to study and just meditate on and it's one that we've been trying to memorize. I haven't been doing a good job of memorizing it lately, but I'd I'd probably won't forget the first couple of verses. Like God's our refuge and strength. I mean like he's there to protect us, he's there to fight for us. Meaning that something is coming against us. There's there to protect us and he's there to fight for us. Meaning that something is coming against us. There's got to be something. We don't need a refuge if nothing bad is happening. So bad things are going to happen and if we're our own refuge, we're going to crumble. But whenever those bad things happens, if we have God as our refuge, we're going to be OK. We may be killed in the process.
Speaker 2:We will still be OK, we'll still be all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's. I mean, that's pretty much what I was going to say too, but just like prepping our mind for when those times come, I just think of that verse in James, which is one I was just pulling up. But it says Kind and all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. So that's just saying that, like we are, we are not. We're not just because we're Christians. That does not mean that we are promised to have a great good life all the time. Like we are going to face trials, but we can count it all joy because we know Jesus.
Speaker 3:Can I give one last? Do you have more questions?
Speaker 2:I have one after this. All I was going to say was all right, communication, y'all know, is so is so important. All right, how do y'all handle disagreements?
Speaker 3:okay, I'm just always right.
Speaker 1:And chloe's always right, he's the man.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you some stories about when I'm just kidding, uh remember the tv anyways the tv so, but all right, y'all have a disagreement, okay, and let's say you both feel very strongly about it. Uh, what happens at that point?
Speaker 1:um well, I think just practically we have to kind of remember that it's not me against you, it's us against the problem against the problem and we have to mean if I disagree with Zeke on something, I try my best to just lay out my case for why I think something.
Speaker 3:And then I shoot it down.
Speaker 1:And then he lays out his case and we try to be nice and respectful.
Speaker 3:Sometimes that's harder than others, but we give each other time, I think, to think about it and just kind of maybe pray on it, like depending on how big the issue is, I would say yeah, and then we just come back together and talk, maybe when we're a little more clear-headed yeah, typically it ends up working out to where, if we both play our case and we actively try to look from the other person's perspective and this could probably go into all aspects of life, of like I think you mentioned in your latest podcast like just be able to see it from the other person's perspective, of you know what this person has good intentions and here's the case for it, and then we can look at and say, okay, well, that's not a very good case, even though their intentions are good. We can acknowledge that there's they're not, at least in marriage. I'm going to assume the best of of Chloe and assume that she didn't purposely do something to harm me and that she probably had better intentions and it didn't work out that way. So, yeah, that's typically how it goes. We both kind of talk through it and sometimes we take some time, think about it, and then one of us will typically end up saying you know what I do, like your way, your way is better.
Speaker 3:Now what we would do if that wasn't the case, or our marriage. That's typically like if there's something where we've had to make a decision and neither of us are really at peace with it or neither of us can really seem to come to agreement at least, then typically I'll. I think most of the time it's come down to, I'll say, well, I think this is the best thing for us, and Chloe typically is like well, I'm going to trust you on this one. It would depend. I mean sure, there's probably other times in our life that it's going to come down to. It may be the other way around, but I think the majority of the time that's kind of what it's come down to Can you think of an example where it didn't?
Speaker 2:Spoken like a true complementarian, mike Winger would be proud.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, it's true, I do trust Zeke and I think that you know what's best for us, and I mean, you're the man of our household, which is just me and you right now, but still, you're the man of our household.
Speaker 3:But, to be fair, most of our stuff so far has been like finances and stuff like that and, to be fair, I'm more geared, my mind's more geared towards that. So in all the situations so far, it has come down to that there's trust. She trusts you on those issues.
Speaker 1:But that's not to say that you know people will take the whole husband or wives submit to your husband thing out of context. That's not me saying okay, zeke, you know you're the man you get to make the decision. That's not that. It's just the fact of like. We took the time to look at each other's perspective.
Speaker 1:So, he's respecting my point of view too and thinking about it, but ultimately, when it comes down, if there's been some time that has passed and he's actively thought about it and prayed about it and he still sat on his decision, I'm like, okay, I trust you.
Speaker 3:And that I mean that doesn't mean I'm right every time, like there's been plenty of decisions where I was like you know what. I made that decision and I have to take the consequences for it, but you're also very good at admitting when you're wrong.
Speaker 1:That's the hardest thing is admitting you're wrong.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's probably the number one piece of advice is being okay with saying I was wrong. I hate it. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I've never regretted doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:I need to be better at that Relationship advice Practice, saying I'm sorry and I'm wrong. Those are not fun words to say, so you might as well get working on it now, yes, but anyways, those are the general questions I've had, as y'all present the case, make the argument for why marriage is a good thing, and I've had, as y'all present the case, you make the argument for why marriage is a good thing, and I think y'all did very well. Is there anything else y'all would like to talk about, or did we cover some of the bases you were thinking of?
Speaker 1:I think that covered a lot for the most part.
Speaker 3:I'm proud to come up with something there's probably I could talk about this for hours.
Speaker 1:I could just sit here for hours. If you got more questions, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Another, just sit here for hours. If you got more questions, oh yeah, another. If find a, please, please, please, do this.
Speaker 3:If a, no matter what, okay, whether you're in a healthy marriage and you're young, or you, if you're a young, healthy married couple, you're a young married couple who you don't feel like you're in a healthy marriage in the sense of, like y'all fight a lot, stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Like if you're in danger, go get help. Uh, like that's extreme, but let's assume no extremes. So, or you're engaged, go find a if you're in church, go to your church and find an older couple who you look up to, who have done this for decades and they seem like they're in a healthy marriage, and invite them to dinner, pay for their dinner and ask them to just help you prepare for marriage or help you work through some of the things you're going through, and find someone who's willing to do that. If you're not willing to do that I mean, if you can't find someone like that, I don't I'm sure there's other ways you could probably go to a therapist and be more official, but I think that would be a really easy way of finding a couple who you look up to and that you respect and inviting them over for dinner or something like that and just picking their brains on these things.
Speaker 2:One thing I do appreciate that we stress on the podcast is don't do this alone. So Zeke often will mention this. You need accountability partners or, in this case, couples. You need older couples, you need more experienced Christians that have been down the same road as you. They're reading the same book, so to speak. They're just a few chapters ahead, really, and whatever analogy you want to use and learn, don't do this alone.
Speaker 2:Be in community. Find a healthy local church. Size does not matter. Large churches can be healthy or unhealthy, small churches can be healthy or church Size does not matter. Large churches can be healthy or unhealthy, small churches can be healthy or unhealthy. But find a good, healthy local church, get involved, serve, surround yourself with like-minded people, because there will be some discouraging days. There will be some days where you get frustrated and you wonder whether it's all worth it. And it's that community based, hopefully, lord willing, on God and Bible that he's left for us, it's that community that can help bring you through some of the darker periods. But good point, zeke, anything else or we can go on home. Chloe, this is your episode, so how would you like to end it?
Speaker 1:Well, I'll just thank Zeke for being here and doing this with me and thanks, nate, for the questions. I think that was really good and, as I said, I could talk about this for a really long time. So if anybody wants to hear more marriage advice, comment below and we will talk more.
Speaker 2:But absolutely, that's a good point. We're on Facebook, instagram, twitter. If you have questions about anything we've said, or pushback or disagreement- no, no.
Speaker 3:If you have disagreement, just don't type anything.
Speaker 2:If you have any disagreements, just shut up and anyways, just let us know. And we'd love to have a follow-up episode. Chloe said that she could talk for hours on this, so I love that. So we might have a second episode, third episode, as time goes on. But anyways, chloe, sign us off.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you guys for listening to Grow with Chloe and we will see you all next time.
Speaker 2:Thank you.